Here's a comparison they cheated and we didn't

Starbuck:

armydave28:

 Cowboys didn't have a salary cap... apples and oranges.

The Cowboys didn't win 3 Super Bowls by cheating either. There is no comparison and only one real dynasty in this thread.

plus were the class of the NFL and the Patriots are not.

sonnybono3000:

derek258:

Sorry guys but you're dead wrong.  Jimmy Johnson was the reason the Cowboys won in the '90s.  He was and remains one of the best talent evaluators there is in the game today.  He developed the system that the teams use on draft day now.  But what's more he is a very good coach. 

Many coaches have squandered loads of first rd picks and tons of cap money.  Jimmy didn't.  He built maybe the most dominant NFL team ever. 

Yes I said Jimmy built.  Because while he was there he had total control on draft day. Total.  Jerry sole contributions to the '90s dynasty remains these three:  1.  He brought in Jimmy.  2.  He signed the checks.  3.  He stayed out of Jimmy's way drafting and coaching.

When he decided he would violate #3 and in turn ran Jimmy off the team began it's downward trend.  They managed to win another SB because of the enormous juggernault built by Jimmy.

Once that core group of talent was gone, we tanked.  And Jerry couldn't do didily.  The drafts he ran were horrid.  The coaches he picked, troubling.  I mean damn.  Chan Gailey?  He was never NFL HC material and now he's getting boucned around in college as well.

Thank Jerry for bringing in Jimmy.  Past that and you have a man-crush on Jerry for no good reason.

 

Sorry guy but you are dead wrong.  Jimmy did not develop that system. That was a system put into place by Jerry Jone, Steven Jone, Gil Brant, Jimmy Johnson.  Jimmy NEVER had complete control of the draft.  This is simply a FALSEHOOD.  Jerry said he was drafting Troy Aikman BEFORE he even Hired Jimmy Johnson.  And many and mulitple players were brought in by Jerry during that time - most notably Haley - and Jerry orcastrated the Walker Trade which actually did less for the Cowboys that MOST might think.

No body argued he was not a good coach - what is being argued is the nonsensical postion that Jimmy did it alone.  Its why he is not a Cowboy now - EGO.  You are simple WRONG again about what Jimmy squandered and did not.  I'm not going to bother again to prove this wrong, as I have done it on several occasions by simply listing the number of picks and BUSTS the Cowboys had during that period.  It was ONLY because of ALL THE PICKS THEY HAD that they were able to compensate for the failures.   The failure rate was very high. 

And if Jimmy was such a great evaluator of talent -- How did that work out for him in Miami while Jerry and Barry where winning a Championship with 11 diffrent players from the 22 that started for the Cowboy team that won the Champion ship in 94? 

And YES I know you said JIMMY built the team.  And I say THEY built the team.  The evidence is pretty clear regardless of what common belief might be.  And the funny thing about this discussion is YOU BELIEVE what you are saying.  The evidence is to the contrary. 

Your characterization of what ACTUALLY happened in Dallas is 100% wrong.  You know - I'm just going to name the corp so I don't get another post from you with no facts in evidence against me.  Dispute this and we can continue.

Irvin - tom landry, gil brant

Aikman - Jerry    Steve Walsh - Jimmy ( lost number 1 pick in the draft )

Smith - Jimmy

Tuine - Landy

Newton - Landry

Johnston - Jimmy     -    Donalds - Jerry

Gogan - Gesk  - Landry

Eric Williams - Jimmy

Harper - Jimmy ( 2 great games aginst 49ers )

Jay - Jimmy

Haley - Jerry

Walker Trade - Jerry. 

Maryland - Jimmy  Gone in 95

Henning - Jerry

Sanders - Jerry

DUDE - that's enough.  It is PROOF positive that your assertion is INCORRECT that Jimmy did it alone. And if I pull the BUSTS from those drafts, you would not want him to take all the credit.  Walsh with the number 1 overhaul pick is enough - NO TROY, NO SUPERBOWLS. and Troy was JERRYS GUY. PERIOD.

Why it is you people try to minimize Jerry's role is beyond me.  Its not about crush's, it about FACTs - you don't have a right to your own.

I hate to tell you but you are WAY off base saying that the Walker trade didn't do that much for us - I'll find out exactly what we got some other time.

  Also you are leaving out a couple of guy Jimmy got like Woody, Kevin Smith, Larry Brown - 12th RD, Leon Lett 7th or 8th RD.,Jimmy Jones,Tony Casillas, Vinson Smith, Jimmy Smith,Mark Stepnowski,Tony Tolbert,Kenny Gant,Dixon Edwards,Robert Jones,Kevin Williams,Darrin Smith, Clayton Holmes,  Brock Marion and a few others - is that enough for you. And BTW Gesek came from the Raiders, and lets not forget Tomas Everett, the Safety from the Steelers - a big pick-up and one of the guys the two argued over who got credit for getting him. Now if Jerry is so great at Drafting, look who we got from the next 4 drafts after Jimmy left- Larry Allen, Randal Godfrey and Dexter Coakly - thats it - 3 guys in 4 years - that out and out SUCKS. And YOU TALK ABOUT FACTS -- 

  LOL 

NY Cowboy wrote:

I hate to tell you but you are WAY off base saying that the Walker trade didn't do that much for us - I'll find out exactly what we got some other time.

  Also you are leaving out a couple of guy Jimmy got like Woody, Kevin Smith, Larry Brown - 12th RD, Leon Lett 7th or 8th RD.,Jimmy Jones,Tony Casillas, Vinson Smith, Jimmy Smith,Mark Stepnowski,Tony Tolbert,Kenny Gant,Dixon Edwards,Robert Jones,Kevin Williams,Darrin Smith, Clayton Holmes,  Brock Marion and a few others - is that enough for you. And BTW Gesek came from the Raiders, and lets not forget Tomas Everett, the Safety from the Steelers - a big pick-up and one of the guys the two argued over who got credit for getting him. Now if Jerry is so great at Drafting, look who we got from the next 4 drafts after Jimmy left- Larry Allen, Randal Godfrey and Dexter Coakly - thats it - 3 guys in 4 years - that out and out SUCKS. And YOU TALK ABOUT FACTS -- 

  LOL 

DUDE.  You SHOULD hate to tell me because you are as wrong as WRONG derek.  You say You'll find out....IIIIIIIIIII KNOW!!!  That's why I typed it.  But YOU....like most people, have in YOUR mind a point of view so it is what YOU say it is regardless of the facts.  It is typically said that THAT trade BUILT the Cowboys and it is FALSE. 

Then you go on to name the enitire 53 man roster to make a point you STILL don't make because just as the point was made with the players I DID name the same holds true for many of the players you named.  Jimmy was not the DECIDER when it came to any player.  It was a Team effort - which was the point in the first place, so I have NO idea why you named those.

And if you BOTHERED to read well while bringing back up a 5 month old argument which derek could not even respond to, you would see that the POINT of WHY the drafts were better then had to do with WHERE we were drafting and how many picks we actually had.  That is the very POINT of the discussion which was totally lost on you.

sonnybono3000:

NY Cowboy wrote:

I hate to tell you but you are WAY off base saying that the Walker trade didn't do that much for us - I'll find out exactly what we got some other time.

  Also you are leaving out a couple of guy Jimmy got like Woody, Kevin Smith, Larry Brown - 12th RD, Leon Lett 7th or 8th RD.,Jimmy Jones,Tony Casillas, Vinson Smith, Jimmy Smith,Mark Stepnowski,Tony Tolbert,Kenny Gant,Dixon Edwards,Robert Jones,Kevin Williams,Darrin Smith, Clayton Holmes,  Brock Marion and a few others - is that enough for you. And BTW Gesek came from the Raiders, and lets not forget Tomas Everett, the Safety from the Steelers - a big pick-up and one of the guys the two argued over who got credit for getting him. Now if Jerry is so great at Drafting, look who we got from the next 4 drafts after Jimmy left- Larry Allen, Randal Godfrey and Dexter Coakly - thats it - 3 guys in 4 years - that out and out SUCKS. And YOU TALK ABOUT FACTS -- 

  LOL 

DUDE.  You SHOULD hate to tell me because you are as wrong as WRONG derek.  You say You'll find out....IIIIIIIIIII KNOW!!!  That's why I typed it.  But YOU....like most people, have in YOUR mind a point of view so it is what YOU say it is regardless of the facts.  It is typically said that THAT trade BUILT the Cowboys and it is FALSE. 

Then you go on to name the enitire 53 man roster to make a point you STILL don't make because just as the point was made with the players I DID name the same holds true for many of the players you named.  Jimmy was not the DECIDER when it came to any player.  It was a Team effort - which was the point in the first place, so I have NO idea why you named those.

And if you BOTHERED to read well while bringing back up a 5 month old argument which derek could not even respond to, you would see that the POINT of WHY the drafts were better then had to do with WHERE we were drafting and how many picks we actually had.  That is the very POINT of the discussion which was totally lost on you.

Do yourself a favor and go look up those drafts ( the years jimmy was there) and look at all those multiple picks and you dont think that the Walker trade had any big effect??? OK

  I named all those players cause you started giving names and who was responsible for them. Also answer me this - why where the drafts so pi$$ poor after Jimmy left. 

 A couple of things I forgot to mention - You say Troy was Jerrys' pick - Troy was the best QB coming out that year everyone had him going at #1 it didnt take a genius to draft him, its not like he was a secret and Jerry got him in the 3rd or 4th RD. Walsh was drafted to be Troys back-up but after a year or so asked to be traded and we did get good value for him. 

You talk about FACTS -  you said " Jerry said he was drafting Troy Aikman BEFORE he even Hired Jimmy Johnson. And many and multiple players were brought in by Jerry during that time - most notably Haley " - Thats funny cause Haley played in SF till 91, he came in before the start of the 92' season. Now unless you were in the room with them when they discussed getting Haley we will never know who gets the credit for wanting him.

 You also said there were 11 different players that won in 94, now do you mean 11 different starters? I hope not cause if you want a FACT here's one : out of the 11 starters on offence that won SB 30 that were not on the Cowboys SB 27 or 28 team - there were only 2 Derrick Kennard- C and Larry Allen- G. and on the Defence there was only 1 - Deon Sanders. The rest of the starters for SB 30 were either on the SB 27 - 28 teams or were drafted while Jimmy was there. Thats a whole 3 different starters  - so dont try and make it seem like it wasn't basicly the same team.

 With that being said - I agree one should never talk in absolutes of coarse Jimmy didnt have TOTAL control BUT he does deserve to get MOST of the credit, just look at what happened when he left. Now if Jerry was so smart how could he have such BAD drafts after Jimmy left?  Do you want to see how bad - try that in the 9 years (between Jimmy and Bill Parcells) that Jerry was in charge of the draft he got 9 players (that were worth something) in 9 years.

 Did you get that 9 players in 9 YEARS - THAT IS BEYOND HORRIBLE - thats why when ppl. want to give MOST of the credit to Jimmy how can someone not agree. 

nyc-cowboy:

sonnybono3000:

NY Cowboy wrote:

I hate to tell you but you are WAY off base saying that the Walker trade didn't do that much for us - I'll find out exactly what we got some other time.

  Also you are leaving out a couple of guy Jimmy got like Woody, Kevin Smith, Larry Brown - 12th RD, Leon Lett 7th or 8th RD.,Jimmy Jones,Tony Casillas, Vinson Smith, Jimmy Smith,Mark Stepnowski,Tony Tolbert,Kenny Gant,Dixon Edwards,Robert Jones,Kevin Williams,Darrin Smith, Clayton Holmes,  Brock Marion and a few others - is that enough for you. And BTW Gesek came from the Raiders, and lets not forget Tomas Everett, the Safety from the Steelers - a big pick-up and one of the guys the two argued over who got credit for getting him. Now if Jerry is so great at Drafting, look who we got from the next 4 drafts after Jimmy left- Larry Allen, Randal Godfrey and Dexter Coakly - thats it - 3 guys in 4 years - that out and out SUCKS. And YOU TALK ABOUT FACTS -- 

  LOL 

DUDE.  You SHOULD hate to tell me because you are as wrong as WRONG derek.  You say You'll find out....IIIIIIIIIII KNOW!!!  That's why I typed it.  But YOU....like most people, have in YOUR mind a point of view so it is what YOU say it is regardless of the facts.  It is typically said that THAT trade BUILT the Cowboys and it is FALSE. 

Then you go on to name the enitire 53 man roster to make a point you STILL don't make because just as the point was made with the players I DID name the same holds true for many of the players you named.  Jimmy was not the DECIDER when it came to any player.  It was a Team effort - which was the point in the first place, so I have NO idea why you named those.

And if you BOTHERED to read well while bringing back up a 5 month old argument which derek could not even respond to, you would see that the POINT of WHY the drafts were better then had to do with WHERE we were drafting and how many picks we actually had.  That is the very POINT of the discussion which was totally lost on you.

 

Do yourself a favor and go look up those drafts ( the years jimmy was there) and look at all those multiple picks and you dont think that the Walker trade had any big effect??? OK

 

  I named all those players cause you started giving names and who was responsible for them. Also answer me this - why where the drafts so pi$$ poor after Jimmy left. 

Jimmy was a good coach,but with that being said JJ is a VERY involved owner and noone that coaches Dallas is gonna have complete control...i think the walker trade was a good one as far as what we got in draft picks..who did we get and were they any good....you should ask sonny...he has very EXTINSIVE files..who really knows who was responsible for who picked who...but the drafting after that sucked...what i want to ask sonny is what year did the salary cap start?

NY WROTE:

 A couple of things I forgot to mention - You say Troy was Jerrys' pick - Troy was the best QB coming out that year everyone had him going at #1 it didnt take a genius to draft him, its not like he was a secret and Jerry got him in the 3rd or 4th RD. Walsh was drafted to be Troys back-up but after a year or so asked to be traded and we did get good value for him. 

Ya know, for a months old argument that has been lost 4 times already...you have getting very sickening.

First of all you can try to equivicate all you like.  Jerry took Troy - PERIOD.   Next, you can be as inaccurate as you like, but I won't let you misrepresent the facts.  Walsh was NOT drafted to be Troys backup.  Steve was Jimmy's guy and we used a 1st round pick to aquire him to compete with Troy at the behest of Jimmy.  Jimmy even benched Troy for Walsh for a time.  Walsh was a BUST as a 1st round pick and Jimmy wanted him. Those are the facts.

You talk about FACTS -  you said " Jerry said he was drafting Troy Aikman BEFORE he even Hired Jimmy Johnson. And many and multiple players were brought in by Jerry during that time - most notably Haley " - Thats funny cause Haley played in SF till 91, he came in before the start of the 92' season. Now unless you were in the room with them when they discussed getting Haley we will never know who gets the credit for wanting him.

"That's funny"?  Why? Because YOU didn't know it?  It is becoming apparent that there is LOTS you don't know about. That happens to be one fact apparently.  Yes Jerry made the move for Haley and has SAID SO on many occassions.  If you to and absorb all the information  and listen to the many many discussions and interviews over the years from scouts to coaches to the owner, perhaps you would not have to question such things when you find yourself on the wrong side of an argument about such things.  Jerry pursued Haley from Eddie when he was having major issues with the guy for a 2nd and 3rd round pick, and as the famous quote goes from Jerry.... "the Cowboys couldn't spell Super Bowl before Haley's arrival at Valley Ranch" 

You also said there were 11 different players that won in 94, now do you mean 11 different starters? I hope not cause if you want a FACT here's one : out of the 11 starters on offence that won SB 30 that were not on the Cowboys SB 27 or 28 team - there were only 2 Derrick Kennard- C and Larry Allen- G. and on the Defence there was only 1 - Deon Sanders. The rest of the starters for SB 30 were either on the SB 27 - 28 teams or were drafted while Jimmy was there. Thats a whole 3 different starters  - so dont try and make it seem like it wasn't basicly the same team.

Once again you are off base with what you are talking about concerning this team.  First let me make this clear.  Many players that we won with on that team IN NO WAY could have come from Jimmy - THOSE are the players I'm talking about.  Now....as i said...because you are getting sickening, I'm going to prove both the Walker Trade talk and the Super Bowl team issue.

93 Offense -  Aikman;  Emmitt;  Johnston;  Harper;  Irvin;  Novacek;   Tuinei;   Newton;    Step;   Gogan;    Williams

       Of these players  Aikman,   Irvin, Tuinei,  Gogan,  Newton  45% Jimmy had ABSOULUTLY NOTHING TO DO WITH.

95 Offense changes.  Kevin Williams, Donaldson, Allen   SO 3 changes on offense. SO......thats now 72% not of Jimmy's making.

93 Defense - Tony,   Russell,  Leon,    Haley,  Edwards,  Norton,  Smith,  Brown,  Smith,  Woodson,  Everett 

        Of these players Haley and Everett were Jerry trades.  

 95 Defensive Changes.   Hennings,  Jones, Myles ( smith injured )  Sanders, Marion,  Boniol.  Clayton Holmes was the nickle but we won't count him.

So  9 not 11,  I stand corrected....lol    over 40% not 50.

With that being said - I agree one should never talk in absolutes of coarse Jimmy didnt have TOTAL control BUT he does deserve to get MOST of the credit, just look at what happened when he left. Now if Jerry was so smart how could he have such BAD drafts after Jimmy left?  Do you want to see how bad - try that in the 9 years (between Jimmy and Bill Parcells) that Jerry was in charge of the draft he got 9 players (that were worth something) in 9 years.

 I already addressed this point TWICE.  Jimmy did not do Great in those drafts.  The Cowboys simply through the actions of Jerry had sooooo many picks, when Jimmy was Horribly wrong on a move or the brain trust missed, they had 2 more chances.  Post Jimmy the team was STILL in a position of winning.  They then never got very high or multiple picks and then were subject to the ravages of injury which forced the very players out that helped the Cowboys win and get bad pick position.  Aikman, Novacek, Haley, Williams, Lett, Tolbert, Sanders ( he was done when he left ) all went out early. 

 Did you get that 9 players in 9 YEARS - THAT IS BEYOND HORRIBLE - thats why when ppl. want to give MOST of the credit to Jimmy how can someone not agree.

Now for the Walker Trade. 

• LB Jesse Solomon
• LB David Howard
• CB Issiac Holt
• RB Darrin Nelson (traded to San Diego after he refused to report to Dallas)
• DE Alex Stewart
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) They traded this pick along with pick(81)for pick(17)from Pittsburgh to draft (Emmitt Smith)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright)
• Minnesota's 5th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans, who drafted James Williams)
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (11) (Pat Harlow)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38) (Darryll Lewis)
• Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (37) (Darren Woodson)
• Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71) (traded to New England, who drafted Kevin Turner)
• Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles, and then to the Houston Oilers, who drafted Brad Hopkins)

SO!!!!  For 5 players, 3 1st's     3  2nd's       1 3rd         and     1 5th     Not to mention the WASTED 1st round pick....NUMBER 1 over all for the Jimmy's Desire for Walsh which Jerry later had to salvage,   We got    Emmitt Smith and Woodson who even made ANY impact on the Cowboys. 

If you say that is Great and means the Walker trade built the Cowboys....so be it.  lol

What you ALSO may want to do is take a look at the REST of those drafts and the amount of Busts.  I have posted all those on the blog before, but its clear you don't really read what is posted to you so I doubt you would go back and check.

 Finally and to restate.....the team that Jimmy Won 2 Super Bowls with Boasted an Offense that had 2/3's of the tripletts he had nothing to do with at all, and a full 45% of starters.  Just the facts.  He then had MULTIPLE HIIIIIIIIIIGH Picks with which to fill in the wholes and had sooooo many busts with very high picks its almost comical to post them all.   YES it is the common myth that Jimmy did so well at drafting but that tends to ALWAYS be the case ( no scrutiny ) when you win.

 Jimmy had a big part to do with the Defense that was created which was is forte, but even there, there were changes for 95.  Injuries were the down fall of the Cowboy team not Jerry.  Galloway for 2 number 1's to replace Irvin who went down in the midst of another Super Bowl run with a Team STILL capable of winning there WAS nothing else.  Galloway was a Pro Bowl Wideout and is still playing well.  Galloway going down in game 1 of his first year cost that season.  Then Aikman going down the next year.  Then Sanders.  Then Haley.  Then Eric Williams... and so on.  Needing a franchise QB and Corner and Pass Rusher were then the mission of the team for the next 6 years.  There was only one obviously bad pick in the mix, and that was Tony Brakins not being picked for Carver.  Other than that....NO ONE SAID BOO when the Cowboys picked back then. 20/20 people make me sick.

SO ENOUGH of this and you.  I know what went down backward and forward and YES there are MANY REVISIONIST HISTORIANS who make it out to be something it was not.  If Jimmy was soooooooo great at picking talent....post 90 name me the great 'gets' Johnson picked after the 2nd round ( WHO SHOULD PLAY FOR YOU ). And while you are pulling those....COUNT THE BUSTS!

glimmerman:

Jimmy was a good coach,but with that being said JJ is a VERY involved owner and noone that coaches Dallas is gonna have complete control...i think the walker trade was a good one as far as what we got in draft picks..who did we get and were they any good....you should ask sonny...he has very EXTINSIVE files..who really knows who was responsible for who picked who...but the drafting after that sucked...what i want to ask sonny is what year did the salary cap start?

The Cap came about in 94, and it was around 35 million which is about a 300% increase over 14 years of which the players get 60%.

Jerry has done a MASTERFUL Job of getting Dallas back to the cusp of a Championship in both Players and Coaches.  We have more talent NOW than even the Super Bowl years in relation to other teams in the league.  Try to name the teams even including the Pats who have more talent than this years Dallas Cowboys.  The Pats LOST there starting number 2 WR and best Corner.  Could you Imagine the Cowboys Blog had WE lost Newman?

We have Hall of Famers on this team.  ( Romo? if he wins a bowl or 2 no doubt )  Owens,  Witten,  Flo,  ( Davis...with a couple of rights ), Ware, Roy, ect.  Many many many many pro bowls left to come baring injury, and Jerry has locked them mostly up. 

 Boy you are a piece of work,   Jimmy got Steve Walsh for insurance - NY Times article:

'We did not make this pick thinking trade,'' said Johnson, who coached Walsh when he quarterbacked the University of Miami to a 23-1 record the last two seasons. ''I think people have found out in this league, you have to have more than one quarterback. I would have kicked myself for a long time if I had passed on a player of the quality of Steve Walsh.''

 Jimmy got him in case Troy got hurt - which is kind of smart - look up Jim Kelly and Frank Reich. OK so he didnt work out and we did lose a 1st rd pick BUT do you know what we got for him? We got 3 picks for him a 1st a 3rd and I dont know the 3rd pick. (and I wont pretend to know and pass it on as fact - like you do). So the Steve Walsh thing didnt really hurt us as you would have us believe.

   And you were still WRONG by saying that we got Haely BEFORE jimmy was hired. 

You talk about FACTS -  you said " Jerry said he was drafting Troy Aikman BEFORE he even Hired Jimmy Johnson. And many and multiple players were brought in by Jerry during that time - most notably Haley " - Thats funny cause Haley played in SF till 91, he came in before the start of the 92' season. Now unless you were in the room with them when they discussed getting Haley we will never know who gets the credit for wanting him.

"That's funny"?  Why? Because YOU didn't know it?  It is becoming apparent that there is LOTS you don't know about. That happens to be one fact apparently.  Yes Jerry made the move for Haley and has SAID SO on many occassions.  If you to and absorb all the information  and listen to the many many discussions and interviews over the years from scouts to coaches to the owner, perhaps you would not have to question such things when you find yourself on the wrong side of an argument about such things.  Jerry pursued Haley from Eddie when he was having major issues with the guy for a 2nd and 3rd round pick, and as the famous quote goes from Jerry.... "the Cowboys couldn't spell Super Bowl before Haley's arrival at Valley Ranch"

 Boy you sound like a politicial talkin alot of crap and not sayin nothing, the FACT still remains that Haely was with SF till 91' - and just cause Jerry said that "He got Haily" dosen't make it a fact 

AGAIN YOU do not know how the discutions went behind closed doors. and he was having trouble with George Seifert  and Steve Young - this is from another article :

  Haley has the distinction of being the only player in NFL history to have been on five Super Bowl-winning teams. To date, no other player has surpassed this achievement. Playing for San Francisco from 1986-1991, he won a ring from Super Bowl XXIII and XXIV following the 1988 and 1989 seasons, respectively. After having a falling out with then 49ers head coach George Seifert and a physical confrontation with then 49ers quarterback Steve Young, he was traded to Dallas in the 1992 off-season. With the Dallas Cowboys, he won three more Super Bowl rings over the next four seasons in 1992 (Super Bowl XXVII), 1993 (XXVIII), and 1995 (XXX).

  So I'm sure Jerry and Jimmy had a long talk about how Haely would fit in with the rest of the team and how Jimmy would handle him. It was not like the TO situation where Jerry basicly forced TO on Bill Parcells. So stop giving all the credit to Jerry for signing Haely. Also what does that quote from Jerry prove.

   As to those 11 players - you made it sound like the SB 30 team was sooo differant than the teams that won SB 27-28   NOW your saying that you dont want to look at Aikman and Irvin. Yes Irvin was drafted before Jimmy got there - but STOP making it seem like Troy is Jerry's guy cause like I said that was a no brainer. Lets look at the starting line-up for SB 30:

Super Bowl XXX Team Rosters

Dallas Cowboys          Pittsburgh Steelers

               ==  Offense  ==

Kennard, Derek     C    Dawson, Dermontti    C
Allen, Larry       G    Newberry, Tom        G
Newton, Nate       G    Stai, Brenden        G
Tuinei, Mark       T    Jackson, John        T
Williams, Erik     T    Searcy, Leon         T
Novacek, Jay       TE   Bruener, Mark        TE
Irvin, Michael     WR   Mills, Ernie         WR
Williams, Kevin    WR   Thigpen, Yancey      WR
Smith, Emmitt      RB   Pegram, Erric        RB
Johnston, Daryl    FB   Williams, John L.    RB
Aikman, Troy       QB   O'Donnell, Neil      QB

               ==  Defense  ==

Lett, Leon         DT   Steed, Joel          NT
Maryland, Russell  DT   Buckner, Brentson    DE
Haley, Charles     DE   Seals, Ray           DE
Tolbert, Tony      DE   Greene, Kevin        OLB
Edwards, Dixon     OLB  Lloyd, Greg          OLB
Smith, Darrin      OLB  Brown, Chad          ILB
Jones, Robert      MLB  Kirkland, Levon      ILB
Brown, Larry       CB   Lake, Carnell        CB
Sanders, Deion     CB   Williams, Willie     CB
Marion, Brock      FS   Perry, Darren        FS
Woodson, Darren    SS   Bell, Myron          SS

 Well on the Offence only Derek, Larry and Irvin were not drafted by Jimmy and Step would have been ther but he left as a free agent. And Nate and Tuinei were there before Jerry or Jimmy

 so Landry had 2 -  Jerry had 3  - and Jimmy 6 -   and Forget about giving credit for Troy to Jerry. No matter what you say he was going to be the 1st pick no matter who was running the Boys.

  Now the D,  Your gonna love this one - You enjoy FACTS so much -  Only Deion is indisputable and we still dont know about Haley, so 1or 2 - THE REST WERE DRAFTED when Jimmy was there 

   YOU GOT THAT MR. FACTS - I'll write it out for you :  Leon Lett Rd 7 -91 draft,  Maryland 91 Draft, Tolbert -89' draft Edwards 91' ,Smith  - 93', Jones-92', Brown-91', Marion-93', and Woody92'

    if you want me to add that up for you that 1 or 2 for Jerry and 9 or 10 for Jimmy.   SO STOP BEING SO CONDESCENDING - yOU DONT KNOW IT ALL - 

      I'm not thru yet - I'll be back later. 

'We did not make this pick thinking trade,'' said Johnson, who coachedWalsh when he quarterbacked the University of Miami to a 23-1 recordthe last two seasons. ''I think people have found out in this league,you have to have more than one quarterback. I would have kicked myselffor a long time if I had passed on a player of the quality of SteveWalsh.''

YES he said this after being chastised by almost every pundit with a brain.  What else was he going to say? And how exactly does this absolve him.  I know who Steve Walsh is.  It was a DUMB MOVE.  He was a good COLLEGE QB.  There are a lot of them.  See every Florida QB there ever was. Bottom line Walsh was a Bust and Jerry had to orchestrate yet another trade.

 Jimmy got him in case Troy got hurt - which is kind of smart - look up Jim Kelly and Frank Reich. OK so he didn't work out and we did lose a 1st rd pick BUT do you know what we got for him? We got 3 picks for him a 1st a 3rd and I don't know the 3rd pick. (and I wont pretend to know and pass it on as fact - like you do). So the Steve Walsh thing didn't really hurt us as you would have us believe.

We LOST the number 1 over all pick in the draft because of that blunder. And you can have Emmitt in the Walker trade or the Walsh trade but not both.  He was officially with the Emmitt trade but I already gave you credit for Smith and Woodson in the Walker trade.  I was trying to help you in your point about the Walker Trade having built the Cowboys and NOW it seems you are on a tagent trying to avoid the fact that you were wrong.  SO if we got Emmitt for Walsh, the Walker trade..the 11 for 1 got us Woodson.

    And you were still WRONG by saying that we got Haely BEFORE jimmy was hired. 

Im not WRONG because I never said it.  I said he said he said he was going to hire Aikman before he hired Jimmy.  Jimmy wanted Walsh and thus the picked him too. 

You talk about FACTS -  you said " Jerry said he was draftingTroy Aikman BEFORE he even Hired Jimmy Johnson. And many and multipleplayers were brought in by Jerry during that time - most notably Haley" - Thats funny cause Haley played in SF till 91, he came in before thestart of the 92' season. Now unless you were in the room with them whenthey discussed getting Haley we will never know who gets the credit forwanting him.

It seems you are just dense and did not understand that   " that time "   was never meant to refer to EVERY MOVE MADE as should be denoted by me saying MULITIPLE PLAYERS.  How could that therefore be relating to entire 1989 job of managing the Cowboys.  I dare say you are the only person who read it that way.  It would not make sense.

 Yes Jerry made the move for Haley and has SAID SO on many occasions.  If you absorb all the information  and listen to the many many discussions and interviews over the years from scouts to coaches to the owner, perhaps you would not have to question such things when you find yourself on the wrong side of an argument.  Jerry pursued Haley from Eddie when he was having major issues with the guy for a 2nd and 3rd round pick, and as the famous quote goes from Jerry.... "the Cowboys couldn't spell Super Bowl before Haley's arrival at Valley Ranch"

 Boy you sound like a political talkin alot of crap and not sayin nothing, the FACT still remains that Haely was with SF till 91' - and just cause Jerry said that "He got Haily" dosen't make it a fact 

No...I sound like someone who knows what he is talking about....talking to someone who refuses to acknowledge the truth that he is wrong and therefore calls another person -- in this case Jerry Jones our Owner -- whom I cannot say has ever been caught lying....A LIAR.  And what about YOU gives you the temerity to call someone else a liar about an issue you know absolutely nothing about?

AGAIN YOU do not know how the discutions went behind closed doors. and he was having trouble with George Seifert  and Steve Young - this is from another article :

   So I'm sure Jerry and Jimmy had a long talk about how Haely would fit in with the rest of the team and how Jimmy would handle him. It was not like the TO situation where Jerry basicly forced TO on Bill Parcells. So stop giving all the credit to Jerry for signing Haely. Also what does that quote from Jerry prove.

I erased the article because it in NO WAY make any point for you.  I was well aware of what happened in San Fransico and apparently YOU were not.  Jerry Made the Trade like I said.  Because you did not know that does not make YOU right or Jerry a Liar for saying so.  I give him the credit because he saw and made the move threw a friendship he created with Eddie.  Just because YOU dont know about it - AGAIN - because you were not paying attention like I was at the time to everything out of Dallas does not then make it false. Sorry pal.  The Quote was in context of a discussion about the building of the Cowboys...that's why I posted it.

   As to those 11 players - you made it sound like the SB 30 team was sooo differant than the teams that won SB 27-28   NOW your saying that you dont want to look at Aikman and Irvin. Yes Irvin was drafted before Jimmy got there - but STOP making it seem like Troy is Jerry's guy cause like I said that was a no brainer. Lets look at the starting line-up for SB 30:

Well if over 40% stops being what it is, I will stop saying it.  And NO I will never stop saying Troy was Jerrys guy because HE WAS.  You can twist, you can turn, you can spin, but Jerry said Before Jimmy he was talking Troy and DID.  Had he waited for Jimmy, who knows...we might have taken an undersized DT like Russell Maryland and waited on Walsh.   Jimmy wanted Walsh like Spurrier wanted his guys and he was a BUST.  Just the Facts.

I erased the rest because you simply go back and rehash what I posted to you PROVING you wrong.

over 45% NOT drafted by Jimmy that won that Super Bowl and He did NOTHING when he left for Miami.

PERIOD!!!

There is no need for you to comeback.  It is as I just posted it. Player for Player a huge huge huge percentage of the Johnson picks from 1 - 4 were busts.  Those are just the facts.  Of course we got lucky on a 12th round pick here and a 9th round pick there, but if you attribute that to Johnsons eye and not the scouts...so be it.  But for the pick you EXPECT to play for you....1 - 4 MAJOR BUSTS.

You people are going overboard for NOTHING...There's no comparing the two...You will NEVER be able to copy,reproduce or manufacture another set of "TRIPLETS"!!!Can't be done!They were the originals!One of the Greatest QBS' to play the game ever.His acuratecy led him to the Hall of Fame...The "PLAYMAKER" was literally unstoppable at times!!!NO ONE went into the middle like him!!!And last but not least the "Best RB" ever to lace up a pair of cletes..."UNTIL HIS RECORD IS BROKE THATS HIS TITLE!!!!"That unique combonation of raw talent can never be measured to any other...ESPECIALLY NOT CHEATERS!!!!

You just have to ask one question.  Would a legitimate dynasty miss the playoffs in between superbowl victories? 

Well YOU happen to ignore the D where it was 9 to 2 how convinient - but whatever - I'm going to stop wasting my time with you.  But I will leave you with one thought 

Jerrys' Drafts from 94' to 02' : I will list the players that were any good and that lasted more than a year or two.

                         Note ;  when I say we had "Three #2s " that means we had three 2nd rounders 

           94' - Larry Allen ,    95'  NONE and we had three # 2s, two #3s and two #4s,      96' - Randal Godfrey, and we had two #2s,  three # 3s ,   So see if you can wrap your brain around this :

                  Between the 95' and 96' drafts we had FIVE #2s ,   FIVE # 3s and two #4s  and we come away with ONE PLAYER -   ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDIN ME ?????????????

     A monkey throwing darts at a board can do better.    I know we didn't have a #1 both those years but come on all those picks and  1 guy.  Now I know you said that Jerrys' picks were bad cause he didn't have multiple high picks - WELL FIVE # 2s and FIVE #3s you got to come away with more than Randal Godfrey !!!!!!!!!!!!    

    Back to the picks -  97' no # 2s but we had a 1st rounder and three # 3s and three  #4s and we got Deter Coakly.     98' - Flo and Ellis.     99'  -  Soloman Page and Dat Nguyen.

              2000 and 2001   NONE unless you want to count Quincy.     and 2002 -  Roy Williams and Gurode.    

          Thats 9 players in 9 Drafts  -  Yes I know you already answered this point -  I just wanted the others to see.