DFan4Ever:

landrystadium:

That catch and run without his helmet tells you everything you need to know about Witten.

 

Everybody likes to point to Gonzalez, Gates and Winslow and compare them with Witten. When i try to imagine any of those 3 in that situation, all i can see is a crumpled heap on the turf after those 2 hits. Witten is just one tough SOB.

Agreed.

Owens and Witten make the team and To also dose along with Prime time Too tall makes it.Without some of them we are minus rings and trophies

Let me clear that up a little.  First of all, I'm heavily medicated.  Next, I was only trying to say that I believe that Owens would belong on such a list of all-time Cowboy players.  Now would I make him an automatic starter over the likes of Irvin, D. Pearson and Hayes? No, but I would find a way to work him into the rotation.  But yeah, the "hired gun" theory is something we seem to agree on.  The day of "lifetime player" was buried when the birth of free agency was born.  I think that when comparing the difference between Irvin and Owens, that you also need to look at the level of competition that they each faced on game day.  Each area has it's superstars, but I think that some the the DB's that Owens has faced overall seem to be at a higher level of quality than did Irvin.  The edge that Irvin holds, he forged the way for guys like Owens with the way he played and help break ground on these contracts that are on the verge of upsurd, but I guess it's what the market bears.  Like I tried to point out, if you kick Owens out of that "all-time" concideration, then you must do it for any and all players that ever played in another uniform, including players like Novacek, Allen, Dorsett and the jewel of them all, Emmitt Smith.  Sorry, but I'm not about ready to do that.  My criteria is based on what they did for this organization and it's fans.  Owens is by no means on my favorite persons list, as I still can see him defacing the "Star" and still find myself wish that George Teague had gotten a cleaner shot.  But T.O. has changed my mind in the way he's grown up during his time here in Dallas.  Trust me, I've seen this guy since his playing days in SF, including training camps when the 49er's moved their camp from Rocklin to Stockton where I live and I can honestly say, that this is a different, more focused Terrell Owens.  IMO, he has his eye on the prize, it's not about, "look at me, look at me" anymore.  He knows that even though he just sign an extention, that his career can be over on the next play at any time and is making the most of it.

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 (quote landrystadium)

Mr. Cowboy74, I don't see where we disagree. You say you only agree with me on the first point you made, which was, I think, that Owens is as much a Cowboy as anyone. If that was what you are agreeing with, that's good. I don't think Owens is a more physical receiver than Irvin was, though. They are pretty similar in style, I think. My point remains that Owens is not worthy of "all-time" status when you are considering all of the receivers in our history. He drops too many passes. I never said he wasn't great. He is. I'm glad he's a Cowboy. I'm happy that he has learned from his past mistakes and become a leader. I was absolutely thrilled when he cried after the playoff loss last year. As I said in my other post, I acknowledge that this team is much, much better with him than without him. I think I fully gave him his props. I just don't think he bumps Irvin or Pearson off the all-time list. I never mentioned T.O's attitude, except to say that if you are going to bark, you better catch balls thrown right to you. Otherwise, you are just Patrick Crayton. Sorry, that may have been a bit harsh.

And I think we agree on the "hired gun" thing. It was my position that, in today's NFL, there is no such thing. My only concession to the term was if someone were simply brought in for one year, with no intentions of re-signing him after that one year. Do we agree on that?

I guess, overall, I was just a little confused by your post. It sounded as if you disagreed with me, but our points all seem to line up, with the exception of whether or not T.O. belongs on the 'all-time' list.

mr cowboy74:

Let me clear that up a little.  First of all, I'm heavily medicated.  Next, I was only trying to say that I believe that Owens would belong on such a list of all-time Cowboy players.  Now would I make him an automatic starter over the likes of Irvin, D. Pearson and Hayes? No, but I would find a way to work him into the rotation.  But yeah, the "hired gun" theory is something we seem to agree on.  The day of "lifetime player" was buried when the birth of free agency was born.  I think that when comparing the difference between Irvin and Owens, that you also need to look at the level of competition that they each faced on game day.  Each area has it's superstars, but I think that some the the DB's that Owens has faced overall seem to be at a higher level of quality than did Irvin.  The edge that Irvin holds, he forged the way for guys like Owens with the way he played and help break ground on these contracts that are on the verge of upsurd, but I guess it's what the market bears.  Like I tried to point out, if you kick Owens out of that "all-time" concideration, then you must do it for any and all players that ever played in another uniform, including players like Novacek, Allen, Dorsett and the jewel of them all, Emmitt Smith.  Sorry, but I'm not about ready to do that.  My criteria is based on what they did for this organization and it's fans.  Owens is by no means on my favorite persons list, as I still can see him defacing the "Star" and still find myself wish that George Teague had gotten a cleaner shot.  But T.O. has changed my mind in the way he's grown up during his time here in Dallas.  Trust me, I've seen this guy since his playing days in SF, including training camps when the 49er's moved their camp from Rocklin to Stockton where I live and I can honestly say, that this is a different, more focused Terrell Owens.  IMO, he has his eye on the prize, it's not about, "look at me, look at me" anymore.  He knows that even though he just sign an extention, that his career can be over on the next play at any time and is making the most of it.

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Thanks, Mr. Cowboy74. That does make it clearer. My exclusion of Owens was based solely on the fact that he drops too many passes for my liking. It had nothing to do with him coming from another team. He is a Cowboy now and, as you pointed out in an earlier post, he will probably retire as a Cowboy. If he makes the HOF someday, he'll wear the star. I think its a good idea to try to work him into the rotation. A second-teamer, perhaps, if we were to expand the list.

You are right, Owens has had to deal with tougher DB's and you kind of pointed out the trailblazing Irvin did for Owens. I think Irvin is directly responsible for Owens facing bigger, faster DB's. It was because of the mismatch that Irvin created over the 5'10" DBs that teams started looking for taller, more physical CBs. In a way, Irvin was Bob Hayes-like, in that he changed how teams defended the pass. Now, he didn't change the game on the level that Hayes did - I'm not saying that. Just changed how teams construct their defensive roster. They didn't have to come up with an entirely new defense.

At any rate, thanks again, Mr. Cowboy, for taking the time to clarify. Isn't it great that we are lucky enough to be fans of a team where you get to debate whether or not Terrell Owens can make your all-time team? Gotta love them Cowboys!

By the way, hope your heavy medication is doing the job and you are well soon.

NP landry.  As far as the meds, that's a 24/7 thing, bad back, but thanks.  Let's get this party started.  9 more days till camp.